A comment goes too long, PART III....

There was a great post put up HERE. My man Schaubs was right on the money when it came to being a competitor and going for the gold.

Then there was this comment from a good friend.

"I believe the decisions to chop are not reached via calculated EV logic, but rather more out of emotion. For a hypothetical example: If by some wild crazy miracle I'm head's up in the Mookie, after just having won the MATH earlier in the week... and my opponent is say someone like BamBam. My initial thoughts are gonna be around the facts that: -the win would mean much much much more to my opponent than it would to myself, -my opponent is a nice guy, a friend,... -and if I can better a friend's situation w/out having too much of a negative impact on my own position, I'll be happy to consider, (albeit w/ appropriate financial motivation! Given the value of the seat awarded, I would likely need 1st and 2nd place money.)"

This one paragraph was right on the money when it came to being an IIF and being a good guy/gal(cover all bases and be non-sexist for those of the WAY more fairer sex!) in the blogger community.

But I just have to say, RC......

I take it as a total compliment that you call me a friend! The feeling is very mutual Sir and I am honoured and pleased that we have what we have, albeit invisible for the time being.

But there is NO CHANCE in hell that I give a penny up in that situation, EVER !!! If I deserve second place, so be it. If I deserve first, so be it. Please refer to Chad's first ever Skillz game. I can tell you one thing for certain, the thought of a chop never even crossed my mind. In fact, it was quite the opposite. The win was all that ever crossed my mind! Taking it down honestly, competitively and being the champ, was all I was ever focussed on.

I consider Fred a friend as well. He's never been anything but good to me whenever we meet on the felt. Had he wished to discuss a chop in that game, I would have respectfully had to decline. To quote from your comment on Schaubs post RC, "-the win would mean much much much more to my opponent than it would to myself." Let me just point out that in my mentality, THE WIN are the key words in this situation. Not the purchase of the win, not the TOC seat but, the winning of that particular event. Short-sighted? Maybe! But isn't that the nature of a competitor? Win the battle, win the battle, win the battle and damn! I just won the war!

That brings me to the main point of the BBT's IMHO.......

Friendly competition.....Friends always for sure BUT, competitors always too!

Consider the balance between the two. Isn't that what really determines who we are and how we handle and represent ourselves? And that's really what we need to consider isn't it? Who you are in victory or defeat, and how we handle the result no matter which one it is.

I see, (and understand) those, that consider a chop as a +EV friendship move in the long run. I also see the financial side of the decision to chop as a strong motivational factor, for some others out there as well. I think the main point is, to each his/her own.

I understand your point better than I can put down in words here Cayne, it's just that Schaubs hit the nail right on the head. In the end, settling is a far worse course of action than... well..... action! I will never condemn a player that chops, for whatever reason they see fit to do so. We're each our own person's and the decisions we make, will be lived with for as long as memory serves. So be it. How it affects others, (as a main focus of the Scwabbles report) will have to be lived with as well.

It's a lot to consider if you really think about it. I just hope that some serious thought goes into the decisions that are being made at the time. Me personally, I want to earn my way to the top! When I get there, there is no better feeling in the world. If I buy my way in and someone allows me to do so, IMHO..... There's no worse!

I give you an example of my personal mindset. I sit 35'ish in points in the current BBT and have almost always been in the top 30. I've only played 16 games, or far less than 1/2 of the 37 games played so far. Only Breeze ahead of me, having played less games. The Goat is also ahead and has only played 2 more games than me. The majority ahead of my position, have played almost every single game in the series. To me, that means I've really earned my spot on the leaderboard! I think I could do quite well in these things if I was a "Left Coast" citizen, and didn't have to get out of bed at 4:30am est every single day of the week. I often wonder where I'd be, if I could play every game available in the series. I'm pretty ef'in proud of that!

Friends and competitors, damn near the coolest thing on the planet.

If you don't believe me, read the G-Vegas gang, my man BadBlood, Otis or, stop by the TuckFard site and review our little history together. 7 or 8 A-Types, 26 A-Types or in the case of the BBT's, 100 plus A-Types all in the same game. If it get's any better than that, it must be the WSoP or the Olympics in my books.

We all know the risks and costs involved in what we do. Hell, every single hand is all about the +/- EV of bankroll's and friendship at the same time. But who out there has it any better than us? Bust a friend, brag for life. Or until at least the next time they bust us right back. Then lather, rinse, repeat. It's just how we roll.

My sincerest thanks for dropping by....


RaisingCayne said...

Nice post BB. A lot of very valid logical points.

I'd really just like to say that my perspective in the Schaubs' comment came out of my imagining the actual situation, (having a TOC seat and being head's up for another!) And given this incredible scenario is so far from reality for me, (Lucko I am not,) I had to imagine that being in that situation, I would've gladly considered conceding the seat for money given a level of contentment in my situation.

But I think that's sort of the point, "contentment." I'm definitely in the minority with my lack of ambition... my complacency... or contentment, or whatever you wanna call it. I know a good poker player would probably never utter the phrase "content with my current/past success." But I suppose my competitiveness has bounds. I sincerely doubt that's the case for the majority.

But for the record... now I'm NOT EVEN CONSIDERING THE CHOP POSSIBILITY WITH YA! :-) It's on! :-)

Enjoy your weekend!

Fred aka TwoBlackAces said...

Hey Bam-bam...your a stand up guy, and a great friendly soul. But poker is poker, and just as if we were all together at a live table, having great table talk, having some drinks, etc...at the end of the day were playing a game, and the object is to win! :-)

I wouldn't want it any other way, if I'm going to win, it's because I've earned it. I can see the 'reasons' why people chop in regular tournament's , although I never would. But clearly in the TOC, it's just an overall bad deal, not only for the guy giving it up, but for the rest of the TOC winners, who earned their way in without a chop.

BadBlood said...

I think you have a good point. Just last night we had a poker game with 7 G-Vegas folks and 2 from Charlotte, with probably over $4k on the table. And we were laughing it up, joking, and stacking G-Rob with AA over KK for a $1k pot.

It's all good when you know your friends can compete on the same level as you and will be happy to take your stack the next time we play.

Neilc999 said...

well done on your skillz vicory you lucky fool you. Thank your lucky stars i wasnt there to nail you ass to the wall!

well done again

Neilc999 said...

hey bam i sent you an e mail but my thingys a bit skewif, so incase you didnt get it u can drop me a mail at:-made_in_tango@hotmail.com